Don't Forget!

[Terry Suchma]

Don't forget!

Log in your Scout Reports to:

Post Your Scout Reports Here (http://www.purplemartins.com/DataDisplay/Input/index.asp)

Also, if you are reading, why not take time to post a note of introduction, concern, questions or comments?

Dialogue is good!

Dialogue keeps everyone coming back. So, if you are here for the umpteenth time or for the very first time, please take time to say "HI" and leave a note for us.

I am lonely here all by myself.:confused:

For any newbies here, this is an information community for PM landlords. No question is too dumb and hopefully not to obtuse for us here to answer. If we don't know the answer, we will find it for you.

"Keep 'em Flying!"
Terry

[Lou King]

Terry. You aren't actually alone here. I'm here. Of course it would be nice if more folks posted something. Come on folks. How about it?? Let's hear from you. CUL Lou

[Terry Suchma]

Dear Lou,

Yes, I know you are my constant companion here and you always work to make the RTC a great place to visit. Thanks for all your attention to the RTc!

At least crusty Rick Cruz is back. Now, if we could get some more crusty landlords to participate, that would be great. Kenny? You know what Kenny you are! And, where is Karl? And, all the others.

Certainly, we have endless martin subjects of which to choose and discuss here.


Terry

[Kenny Kleinpeter]

Don't worry; when I have something good to say, I say it. That's why I post about once-a-year. :-) The problem is, I focus on the negativity of human interaction with wildlife because, unfortunately, that's what I mostly see.

I like the message of Rick's fast food starling post and I think he's dead on the money. Starlings have nothing, absolutely nothing on the most invasive, destructive species that the world has ever, and probably ever will know: humans. In fact, I believe that the only way we can save the world is to destroy ourselves so; if you think about it, we really are doing one hell-of-a job. It's only a matter of time before some Avian Flu or third-world nuke levels the playing field between humans and the rest of life.

Most of the martineers, bluebirders and wood duckers I've come across treat these animals like pets and that's all they're interested in. We've made their habitat so unsustainable that we have to supplemental feed them; make them squeeze through tiny holes; poison their nests; and kill their competitors (that we introduced). And that's supposed to give us a warm, fuzzy feeling?! Count me out.

It's bad enough that we poison this whole planet with all these wonderful oil and plastic products that, two months later end up in the air and landfills but, when we lure one or two particularly desperate bird species and then, generalize that everything else is in harmony, I think we appear particularly stupid. Yeah, that's right: stupid. Can I say “stupid” on this site? :-) I guess I'd get blackballed on some of the other so-called birding forums (aka, lonely hearts clubs) for such criticism.

After fighting the general stupidity of this hobby I call "nestboxing" and getting burned by the "bubbas" out there, I'm learning to keep my mouth shut. I need to just concentrate on studying my trails and trying to understand just what these birds really need in terms of sustainable habitat. When the human race can afford to maintain sustainable habitat for most, if not all of the wonderful diversity of life on this globe, I will have a better attitude, I promise. :-) The problem is, it probably won't be during my lifetime.

I appreciate the few but fine people that frequent this forum. Thank you, Terry for maintaining an alternative perspective on this hobby. Nestboxing is a gateway to real natural resource conservation even if only a few make it through the B.S.

-Kenny

[Donnie Hurdt]

Well Mr. Kleinpeter, I know that this is America and you have a right to your openion but I dont see how you can hate humans the way you apparently do and still care for wildlife? Rember you are a human too and living here and are a consumer like the rest of us. Have a nice day.

[Kenny Kleinpeter]

Hate is a strong word. I might hate what a lot of humans are doing to our environment but I don't generally hate the species. As much as "enlightened humans" may consider the themselves seperate from the rest of the wild animals, I prefer to think of us as a special species of ape. In that respect, we are wildlife too -- just one that has become too invasive for the earth's environment to sustain.

If humans were much more than a glorified ape, we'd be better stewards of our land and of each other. Indications are that we have quite a way to go. I'll try to remember that I'm like you, Donnie, except with an attitude.

[Terry Suchma]

:confused:

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!

I love you both!

From the RTC, I have known both of you for some years now and I understand from where both of you are coming. I have a great deal of respect for both of you, Donnie and Kenny.

When notes are posted, we are not in the most advantageous position where we can actually hear the voice of the one that posts. We are reading only words and digesting them. And, while doing so, we cannot hear the intonations of various words. And as we read them, various brains interpret the readings differently.

This is a discussion forum, hopefully eliciting discussions. Heavens know! I try hard to keep discussions going however, these are not the types of discussions I had in mind. I hope that you and others will help me to continue to promote discussions on the RTCs as long as they are intelligent and there is nothing personal interjected.

Cheers,
Terry

[Donnie Hurdt]

Terry, sorry, I dont want to strart any wars here my statement to Mr. Klienpeter was ment to be just one statement and not a prolonged arguement, thats why I ended it with saying "have a nice day".
On another note I wish there would be more activity on this forum I like yours and Lou's efforts to get some more topics going I'm sure things will liven up in a few weeks when the weather warms and the martins get closer.

[Terry Suchma]

Dear Donnie,

I know words cannot always accurately convey someone's tone. That is why I wrote the note, Donnie.

And, while my words here today cannot accurately convey my concill1atory tone, I offer them anyway.

For all the years that I have been moderating a Purple Martin forum, I am proud to say it has been 99% friendly to all. I think this is why many come here. I also think that landlords come here to learn, too.

I have known you and others from the RTC for many years. I get a certain feel for folks that come here and I know that it is not in your online character to cause a problem. I know you want to contribute here and your input is valued to me and the others.

I strongly believe that both you and Kenny contribute greatly to such discussion groups as we have here and our readers learn much from both of you.

While Kenny's comments may be more uncompromising to some or most, they are thought provoking and interesting. From his strong words, we get an entirely different picture of how the Purple Martin interest is percieved by others who love the birds as most of us do. This is why his old RTC discussion group was called The Cutting Edge. I welcome both thoughts as long as nothing is personal.

Cheers,
Terry

[litedave]

Terry. You aren't actually alone here. I'm here. Of course it would be nice if more folks posted something. Come on folks. How about it?? Let's hear from you. CUL Lou

Hey Lou and Terry,
Your not alone. Iv'e been reading your posts for several weeks now and decided to join up.
I have been a PM landlord for 5 years and each year seems to get better. I have a Ham radio antenna about 29 feet high that the Martins use as a perch. Its located just across from thier birdhouse about 60 feet away and they love to swoop from the antenna radials to thier house. I get an approximate count as to how many PM's I have by looking up at their perch and seeing them. Last year I counted 18 one day, all of them chirping and carrying on. Way more then the perch could accomodate. They seem to have made themselves a spring home here each year. This year, they made their first arrival on 2/25/07. They immediately took up residence in their hotel in my yard and my neighbors hotel in his yard.
I am faced with a challenge as to getting rid of all the House Wrens that also enjoy the birdhouse. The PM's seem to tolerate these little pests, but I don't know for how long. My neighbor shoots the Wrens with a pellet gun from his back porch.
David

[Lou King]

David. Welcome to the PMS NA. Are you sure though that these birds are House Wrens, and not English House Sparrows?? I'd say probably the latter. I've never known House Wrens to be in the company of other HWs. They're normally pretty much loners. HWs are also protected as Native Birds. EHSs are NOT protected, since they were imported, and have really raised havoc with our Native birds. They are also known to hang out in groups. (I call them gangs, cause that's about all they are. Nothing but trouble makers, thieves, and killers). If the neighbor is killing EHS, I'd like to toss out a great big "Attaboy" to him. Our Native birds would also thank him if they spoke our language. Anyway, glad to see you've got your birds back. Must be you live waaayyy down South someplace. It's much too cold up here in Michigan for them yet. It'll be at least mid April before I can even expect any. That is if some find my place this year. Again, Welcome. CUL Lou

[Terry Suchma]

Dear Dave,

I am glad to see you here. I am also cheered to know you have a good colony of martins going there.

You know it is sad, in one respect, that we don't use aluminum antennas any more. Martins sure love them!

Did any of you know that JL Wade of the Trio Mfg Co used to be an antenna salesman in the fifties? When he saw the handwriting on the wall that cable TV (little did he know then about satellite TV) would replace antennas, he retrofitted his manufacturing company to make martin houses. While Wade was an entrepreneur, the fact is that he loves Purple Martins. By the way, Mr. Wade will be 95 years old this April 4.

So, as a way of life, antennas, passed into history--with the exception of those like you, Dave, that still communicate via ham radio.

For you, Dave, that 18-ft antenna will bring you and your martins much contentment.

As for House Wrens, I echo Lou's words. I think that wrens are loners also and wouldn't be seen in numbers.

While they are a very destructive bird for martins, they are native birds. In the past, I have had a few instances spread over a great number of years where House Wrens have been a problem.

Early on in my martin life, I learned that HWs were destructive. I mistakenly thought that they were cute. Little did I know that my second year would end in sadness as the HW flit up the rope of my Trio-Grandpa house, went inside in the early stages of my martins' egg layng and pecked the eggs open--completely ruining my first season. The birds were subadults and did not reclutch.

Fortunately, I did get martins again the next season. Somehow, these birds found forgiveness in their little birdie hearts and came back and graced my next summer.

A good bit of advice would be that those of you that love House Wrens--stop loving them right now! While we are not supposed to attribute human qualities to wildlife because that would be considered anthropomorphic in doing so, these birds are evil--:evil:

If any of you are currently providing birdhouses for House Wrens and want also to attract martins, STOP providing wren boxes. Now!

House Wrens and martins cannot peacefully coexist. Martins lose.

If I knew your neighbor, and, if I knew that the birds he was offing were wrens, I would caution him not to shoot them. While they are dangerous to martins, they share the same protection of state and federal wildlife laws. They are native species.

Now, sparrows are another thing. :twisted:

Thanks for introducing yourself, Dave. We are happy to have you on board! As you see, Lou and I are happy to have some one with which to chat :D

Terry

[midge717]

<going outside to take down my wren houses>

Yikes! Who'da thunk it?

Question: Is there any difference in the housing needs of chicadees and wrens? I know wrens will use swinging houses where other birds won't. How can I keep my chicadee friend? (And don't you dare tell me they aren't nice birds! I'll be heartbroken!)

[Terry Suchma]

Question: Is there any difference in the housing needs of chicadees and wrens? I know wrens will use swinging houses where other birds won't. How can I keep my chicadee friend? (And don't you dare tell me they aren't nice birds! I'll be heartbroken!)

Dear Midge,

No, the chickadees are the good :cool: birds and the House Wrens (HWs) are the :twisted: birds!

I say that because the HWs are like terminator birds. I'm sorry! Yes, they sing pretty, but they are vandals. They will go from birdhouse to birdhouse, wreaking havoc in each nestbox inside their 3-acre fiefdom. When they find a cavity, albeit one in a tree, a post or a birdhouse with a nest and/or eggs, they destroy the eggs and nest. They create a lot of reproductive failure for other native cavity nesters.

Why do they do this?

Because they will not tolerate any other cavity nester nesting inside their territory. This includes Purple Martins!

When I first had my martin houses, years ago, a wren shinnied up the rope of my Trio Grandpa and went inside and broke the eggs in all my nests. Sad to say, my martin season was over that year. The martins did not reclutch because it was a new colony and the nesting martins were subadults.

My advice to you, Midge, is that if you want martins, do not encourage House Wrens. They will be a problem.

As for the difference in wrens and bluebirds, they can use the same houses or gourds. Typically, birding people use smaller gourds, like the smaller SuperGourd, for chickadees, bluebirds and wrens.

Wrens like brushy areas nearby. So, nestboxes near these brushy types of areas will find success more often with wrens than others.

Wrens will find a ton of small sticks to put inside their nesting areas. Where they find a gazillion sticks, I don't know, but they do, In addition to building their one and true nest, the wren males will build several dummy nests. So, if you had a bluebird trail of boxes, you might find sticks in each of the bluebird boxes in the 3-acre territory assembled by the same male wren. The thinking is that the male wren builds several dummy nests and then takes his prospective female to each and she passes judgment on each and chooses only one. I know, fellas, you all see a distinct correlation here between wren women and human women. ;-)

Now, the chickadees, both the male and female, construct beautiful nests of moss, plant fibers and hair.

Where do they get all that moss and hair?

Well, I have seen chickadees hanging of the side of a building or retaining wall on the north side and gleaning minute moss off the structures.

And, where do they get the hair? Well, I understand that Chipping Sparrows will brazenly take hair from a sleeping dog. I guess the chickadees do also, but the best place for them to find hair is on a livestock farm.

Chickadees also use bluebird houses. And, what I always thought was spectacular was when a chickadee was arriving back at its nestbox, it came ramming speed and right into the hole without any pause.

Hope this helps!

Terry

[litedave]

Hi Lou and Terry and all the PM Landlords,
Yes, I was mistaken. What I have are House Sparrows not Wrens. I observed these birds getting all worked up when the Martins started to arrive in my backyard several weeks ago. I cleaned out the PM hotel around the middle of January and again 3 weeks later because the Sparrows had already began working on new nests. When the Martins started arriving around Feb. 25th,I actually saw the Sparrows breeding in a agitated manner. It was kind of funny to watch this behavior. They began to work on their nests in a hurried fashion as if they wanted to show that they had taken over the PM hotel. The Martins flew over to the hotel and began taking up residence and confronted the Sparrows. You could see the Martin's wanting to take back possession. This went on for several weeks. Now, nearly a month later the Martins have retaken their hotel and most of the Sparrows have moved out. I was surprised to see this. The Sparrows gave it a good fight, but the Martins really out numbered them. I think this is the most Martins I have seen this early in the season.
They really do like my antenna radials and use it as a perch throughout the day. I was thinking about putting up another perch somewhere else in the yard. Maybe a 20 foot pole with 4 radials. They enjoy swooping from perch to nest. We have several man made ponds around here where I live and the Martins must be attracted to these. But, thats another story.
The Martins do not seem to be afraid of me when I am in the backyard. They will sometimes swoop down near my dog when she is out there. It seems like they are playing with her. Or, they may just be curious. They are quite aerobatic and give a great show. They seem to be very happy.
I have a question about crickets. How do you feed them to the Martins and why?
David
SE Louisiana

[Professor BirdBrain]

Dear Dave,

Crickets make good food for martins, but are they better than mealworms?

I think mealworms are better food than crickets. For several reasons.

Crickets are bugs! I hate bugs! And, a shipment of crickets is a lot of bugs--creepy, no make that jumpin' bugs. You don't want them to get loose in your house, guys, or you will be in big trouble at home. So, personally, I don't like to deal with crickets.

Crickets have a lot of exoskeleton or chitin, and this is more difficult for the birds to digest.

If mealworms are properly fed, they can provide more protein than crickets with their larger area of exoskeleton.

When landlords feed martins, it is a time of bad weather. And, most landlords don't feed their martins until after two or three days of bad weather. It is this time when landlord realize that something is wrong with their martins and already the martins begin to deteriorate and lose weight and strength.

Landlords either sling shot the crickets up or spoon pop them into the air, or remove the crickets legs and provide them on a platform. Some even release the crickets inside the houses in hopes that the martins will get them before the crickets hop out and escape.

When landlords flick crickets into the air in adverse weather conditions, they cause those martins that still have flight strength and the will to leap into the air and catch them. Some martins are inclined to do this to eat while others are no so inclined and/or have no strength to do so. Not every martin gets an expensive cricket. Not every martin can compete with cricket eating martins.

I think that lopping crickets into the air and causing martins to go for them while on low levels of strength is not a good thing. There will be martins leaping for food, expending their valuable energies and not getting any food at all. In the end, the martins are further exhausted.

I admit, there are not many that think along the same lines of thinking as I do. I always think about the martins and what is good for the martins, not what is good for the landlords. And, some landlords think feeding crickets during this time is fun. I don't think of it as fun. I think of it as serious business. I know that if those martins don't eat, they will die.

Many consider that those martins that die is the way that Nature intended. After all, it is the survival of the fittest. I am a real tree hugger--I mean martin hugger and the bottom line for me is the Purple Martin. I can't let them die.

For me, I would rather feed them mealworms. I don't like mealworms much either, but they don't escape, even when they are in the insect stage. They just can't get out of an inch high glass container. Yes, mealworms are fragile, but so are the crickets. But, if I put mealworms out in a dish on a platform, they are going to stay there. Crickets legs will have to be "modified" before they stay in a dish or on a platform.

If you are leaning toward mealworms, I think it best to "teach" your martins to eat mealworms, preferably in the early spring time when the temps in the mornings are cooler but not threatening to them.

I have written this many times over the years, but what I do is:

1. Order your mealworms! Order some to spare. You will lose many to the elements.

2. Get some small parakeet cups from a pet store or Walmart. These have meal hooks on them.

3. Get Velcro "tape" and cut the tape into 1" pieces. Attach the soft 1" piece to the inside of your birds' compartments. Attach the "rough" side to the side of the parakeet cup. Now attach the parakeet cup with mealworms to the inside wall of your compartments. Keep it toward the front.

Do this everyday for a week of cool spring weather. Check the mealworms every day. If it so cold, use a 60-watt lightbulb in an unused compartment and duct tape it closed. The heat will radiate out to the surrounding compartments. This keep the martins warmer, helps them to shiver less and conserve their energies. The lightbulb also helps to keep the mealworms alive.

Most martins will not readily eat mealworms (or crickets). Martins can't relate to either mealworms or crickets because they both do not fly. So, they have to be prodded along every day with wiggling mealworms. Eventually, many will investigate the worms and will nibble on them. When they are hungry, they will eat more of them.

If you begin to notice your martins eating the mealworms, then it is high time to put out a feeding platform such as the Orange StarFeeder, designed by Ed Donath, fifteen years ago. I have one. It is a five pointed "orange" star, a universal martin feeder that, if everyone used one, martins would recognize as a feeding platform for martins.

On the StarFeeder, there is a piece of Lexan to cover the worms and keep them from drowning should it rain. Martins walk under the Lexan to get their worms.

Once you feed martins on a regular basis, then they will recognize worms and participate in eating them. If more martins are seen by other martins at such feeding platforms and eating mealworms, other martins will do it, too.

I recommend a program such as this so that when it is serious weather conditions outside, the birds do not have to undergo the learning process with either mealworms or crickets in such a stressful weather time.

Once you have a type of feeding program or study going on, then you can supplement some of the "wild" food with the Donath prepared egg pancake. This is a specially made pancake of eggs with no oils and cut up in 1/4" x 1/4" pieces and mixed in with mealworms until martins are now taking eggs easily. Once they do this, you can move to inexpensive egg pancakes and no bugs at all.

Sounds yummy to me!

Here is information once again on feeding martins. It is information by Mr. Ed Donath of Arlington Hts IL. who passed away almost three years ago this May. Ed's brother, Richard, is a regular reader here.

http://www.purplemartins.com/rtc/showthread.php?t=398&highlight=feeding+mealworms

[adiekaty]

David,
Hello... I am new to this site, but log on each day to get wise wisdom from everyone. Sounds like you are enjoying your feathered friends like we are. No problem here w/anything but the Starlings... I am in Texas and had my 1st martins arrive on feb.22. I have 3 pairs so far but it looks like 2 new females showed up today,Wet or scragly... Couldn't tell. Good luck w/ your site and I would love any info. on gourds. I have a metal 12 room house and a double gourd rack(12) so far, nobody in the gourds...
Adrienne

[Lou King]

David. In reference to: I have a question about crickets. How do you feed them to the Martins and why? The main reason folks feed crickets is when the PMs get back and it turns cold, or rainy, or windy. These conditions are NOT conducive to PMs feeding very well. The PMs normally will NOT take food that is offered unless they are quite hungry. The best way is to flick the crickets OR mealworms, OR scrambled eggs with a spoon. Plastic works fine. You do NOT want to direct your aim at the PMs. You need to direct the food in front of them, and above them. They need to have time to see the offering, react to it, and take the offering. If you direct it towards them, they don't have enough time to react, and often when they do react, it is in fear, because something is coming right at them. If you try to feed, be forwarded, you could be in for a time of it. Lots of folks spend hours before the first cricket is taken. Once the first one is taken though, it usually goes much better. Sort of Monkey see, Monkey do. Follow the leader sort of thing. Once one gets the hang of it, the knowledge seems to spread out pretty quick. One reason crickets are suggested is because they more resemble the dragonflies which they normally prey on, than do mealworms, or scrambled eggs. Once they start taking the crickets, you can try offering either mealworms, or dry scrambled eggs. One can do this either be flicking, or in a feeder set a little ways from the PMs perching area. The good professor is very correct in saying mealworms (NOT Waxworms you use for ice fishing.) are more nutritious. However, most folks seem to thing the PMs will see and take the crickets more readily. One good way to keep the crickets from hopping around is to chill them, or even freeze them. Remember to warm them some before feeding though, because warming the food would take a lot of energy that the PMs need desperately. Hope this and the good Professors post help you. CUL Lou

[litedave]

Very good info, Prof BirdBrain and Lou. Coincidently, Fluker, Louisiana is just up the road from me, so getting Martin food would be easy to get.
The last few years we have experienced droughts down here from May to July. Periods where we would get hardly any rain whatsoever. I worry how this effects the Martins. And of course, there are times where we get a lot of rain in the summer. When Hurricane Katrina came through, the Martins were already gone and missed all the fun and excitement. Lucky for them.
Its interesting that immediately after the hurricane I did not see any kind of birds anywhere for almost a month. Even the mosquitoes disappeared for a while. The storm literally blew them all out. This is no joke.
Now, I have observed a resurgence of wildlife never seen before the storm. More blue jays, mockingbirds, pigeons, martins, sparrows and squirrels. I guess they came back to rebuild. Funny.
Thanks guys for the great info.
David

[Terry Suchma]

Dear Lou,

You have given Dave excellent advice in how to launch those crickets.

I am going to put that information somewhere safe so you can keep on providing this information to all who come and read later.

Thanks for asking Dave and thanks to Lou for giving (as always).

Terry

[Terry Suchma]

Dear Lou and others,

Lou graciously spent time to write out how to feed crickets to martins in adverse weather. We have now put his information in the "Sticky" Conference where it will live into eternity.

Thanks again, Lou!

Here is the sticky link here on the RTCs:

http://www.purplemartins.com/rtc/showthread.php?p=1434#post1434

Terry

[CelticRose]

Things in Punta Gorda,FL were off to a shaky start,but I have over 6 prs and I noticed yesterday the females were off to get nesting materials.I haven't said much as I am recovering from surgery.But I enjoy reading all comments and threads.Keep up the good work and I will try and be more vocal...Rosemary

[Terry Suchma]

Dear Rosemary,

Sorry to hear you have had surgery but I want to wish you a speedy recovery and hope you are back to normal soon.

With the mellifluous churblings of your six pairs of martins out side, hopefully this will be music to your ears and help you feel better faster!

Cheers to you, Rosemary!

Terry